Susan Friedmann [00:00:00 - 00:01:04]
Welcome to Book Marketing Mentors, the weekly podcast where you learn proven strategies, tools, ideas, and tips from the masters. Every week I introduce you to a marketing master who will share their expertise to help you market and sell more books. Today, my special guest is Scott Carley.
He's known as the Trust Energizer. Scott helps CEOs and leadership teams understand something that can make or break a business, and that's trust. He's the creator of the Trust Credit Score and the author of Can I Trust You?
He's spoken in all 50 states and 9 countries, including more than 90 presentations for Vistage. What I especially like about Scott's work is that he makes trust practical. He gives leaders tools they can use to strengthen teams, build customer confidence, and create better results.
Susan Friedmann [00:01:04 - 00:01:24]
At the heart of his all is the simple idea: when trust goes up, performance often follows. He's a friend, he's a speaker colleague. Scott, it's an absolute pleasure to welcome you to the show, and thank you for being this week's guest expert and mentor.
Scott Carley [00:01:24 - 00:01:37]
Hey, thank you, Susan. I am delighted to be here. You know, you and I see each other every week as we're writing, and it's just great to be able to be on your podcast.
And thank you. I'm excited to be here.
Susan Friedmann [00:01:38 - 00:02:11]
I'm excited to have you because I know that even though we don't talk about it so much, the whole idea of this, can I trust you? You've made this your work. You've built it. a business around this powerful question.
Let's look at that question. You call it a silent question. Can I trust you?
Let's talk about it as it applies to authors and even their readers. Talk to us more about this.
Scott Carley [00:02:12 - 00:03:49]
That is pretty interesting. You know, when somebody walks into a business or they're in a sales meeting, They have things that they're thinking in their head they never say. One of them might pop out and the salesman is right across the table and they can say something.
But when it's a book and an author, there's really nobody to talk to. But we still have those silent questions, mostly subconscious. But we're asking the question, can I trust you?
Can I trust you as an author? Can I trust what you've written? Can I trust where you got your research?
And where did you come up with your ideas? What is influencing you? And so I'm asking all these questions, and honestly, as I find those things out, they either make me feel confident and make me say, I need to get this book, I need to put this author, you know, my pad where I'm reading and listening to everything they say, or it's, you know, I'm not sure that I want to go down that train of thought.
And so can I trust you? Can I trust that what you say is something original, or doesn't have to be original, but it is a compilation of what other experts that I admire have come to the same conclusions about? So yeah, trust is a big deal, and these— all these silent questions in my mind to validate whether I should pick the book up or not.
And it's not necessarily because you got a cool cover, but that is a place to start.
Susan Friedmann [00:03:49 - 00:03:51]
I mean, that's a good place to start.
Scott Carley [00:03:51 - 00:04:11]
The number one thing, the number one thing that our minds find a way to trust is what we see. It's the presence, the energy, the look that somebody brings, whether it's on a book cover or whether you're in person. How it looks does make a difference.
Susan Friedmann [00:04:12 - 00:04:12]
Absolutely.
Scott Carley [00:04:12 - 00:04:14]
It can't be the only thing that makes it.
Susan Friedmann [00:04:14 - 00:04:54]
I know you can't judge a book by its cover. However, we do. We definitely do.
Now, we write books to build authority, to show that we're an expert. It's a form of credibility. However, credibility isn't necessarily authority.
And so much of what authors are looking for is to be seen as an authority, as to be seen as a thought leader. Where does trust fall into that whole game, if you want to call it that?
Scott Carley [00:04:55 - 00:05:35]
That's a great question. Trust is not just singular. When I wrote my book, I discovered that trust has 5 signals that it's looking for.
The first one is presence, the energy, the feel, the look, all of that. You know, we look at it, what the COVID looks like, what the back of the book looks like. The second thing is our intentions, our motives.
What's the agenda here? What are they promoting? Is there something behind the scenes I'm not seeing that they're trying to sell?
Or what's going on? What are their motives? And then the third one is core values.
Do their core values and my core values line up? Now, they don't have to match.
Scott Carley [00:05:36 - 00:06:42]
They have to be somewhere that is in the same train of thought. Because if your core values, whoever the author is, and my core values don't have some alignment, I'm not going to be interested and I'm not going to trust it. The next one, fourth one, is expertise.
When I hear about your expertise, what you're knowledgeable about, what you have researched, when I hear and I read and I see in your book that you're quoting other authors, this is a funny thing, but we used to say it, you know, when you copy one person's work, that's called plagiarism. But when you copy 5 people's work, that's called research.
And so, okay, let's keep it funny, but the reality of it is If I don't see you quoting anybody, I get a little nervous about that because that means your ideas haven't been bounced off of some people that I admire. When they've been bounced off some people that I admire, now I can say, okay, he's got something there, she's got something there. And along with that, the magic is in the details.
Scott Carley [00:06:43 - 00:07:42]
Part of what I'm looking for in a book and from an author is for you to go down a trail and explain something in a deep dive That I haven't heard before. I want to see it in a different way. I want you to quote something that is a zinger with me that when I hear that, oh, that's a different way to think of that.
I'd never thought of that before. You know, I used to have a thing when I did time management and I tell people, if you have a schedule, people will line up behind you. But if you don't have a schedule, you're going to line up behind everybody else.
That phrase has bounced all over this country and people come back to me and will say, you know, you spoke at a conference and I remember this one statement you made. So those zingers that define a detail and bring it to the spotlight are part of what make an author credible, gives you credibility that differentiates you from other people.
Scott Carley [00:07:43 - 00:08:37]
That's expertise. And then the last one, number 5, is just your track record. And the track record is, have you actually done any of this stuff?
Was all this, you know, in a deep dark room somewhere behind a keyboard? Or have you actually been out there in the thick of things and tested it so that, you know, you've been in the game and you've gotten your feet wet, your hands dirty with whatever topic you're talking about? So that now I see that you've got some experience.
Trust is built by behavior. I want to see your behavior in case studies. If I hear case studies, then that's a behavior I can say, okay, this is how it responds in real life, how it responds in idealism.
So that's it. I think that's a big way that authors create credibility.
Susan Friedmann [00:08:38 - 00:09:06]
I love that. I love those 5 signals. What's coming to mind as you went through all of that, Scott, is— and I'm sure you've been asked this many times before— but where does AI fall into all of this?
Because now we're doubting so much what is true, what isn't true. How can I trust you? Is this your work?
Is this AI's work? How do you answer that?
Scott Carley [00:09:07 - 00:09:42]
Yeah, we're all asking that same question. The thing about trust, trust is built by behavior. It's earned in drops, it's lost in buckets.
And that's a quote by Stephen Covey. It's been around for quite a while. I have to watch your behavior so that I see something consistently happening.
When I see something consistently happening, Then I have a way to measure how much I trust it in. AI is only as good as the information that we feed it.
Scott Carley [00:09:43 - 00:10:31]
When I ask about things, I want to put in some reference about some experience. So I was on AI yesterday and I was going over, I was doing something about a situation. It's giving me some feedback and I said, okay, hold on.
I've got a 12-year history here, and in this 12-year history, these are the up and down behaviors that I've seen. And AI came back and said, oh, that paints a different story. Because when you've got a track record of behavior that can validate why I'm feeling like I'm feeling, then AI can't wash that away.
It has to say, okay, well, we've got a track record here. And that's one of the reasons that I use a trust credit score in little and big ways.
Scott Carley [00:10:32 - 00:10:46]
And I just run it through those 5 points. Its presence, its motives, its integrity or core values, its expertise, and its track record. Part of what I've done, and I'm trying to teach AI to do this— did you hear that?
Susan Friedmann [00:10:47 - 00:10:47]
Yes.
Scott Carley [00:10:47 - 00:11:08]
I'm trying to teach AI to do this, is to calibrate the gut feeling of trust that we have with something. And you just have to feed it those 5 signals. And if you feed it those 5 signals, it doesn't have any choice but to say, based on those 5 signals, this is the conclusion we come up with.
Susan Friedmann [00:11:09 - 00:11:10]
Oh, I love that.
Scott Carley [00:11:10 - 00:11:19]
But if you don't give it the 5 signals, it's a random gut abstract feeling. And that's exactly what I'm trying to get away from.
Susan Friedmann [00:11:20 - 00:11:54]
Yeah. So let's look at it in terms of marketing as well, because as you know, I mean, we're all marketing our books, we're marketing ourselves. Is there something that you see, or many things that you see that people are making that are turning the trust factor off?
Where like, I don't trust you because... And they're not going to tell you that, but what are some of those signs and signals that will turn somebody off?
Scott Carley [00:11:55 - 00:12:57]
Yeah, that's also a curious question that a lot of us have. We don't really know how to ask that question, but, you know, we're saying, well, something's turning me off with this. And again, when I do marketing, let me just say it like this, when I do marketing, I tell AI or whoever I'm working with, Okay, here are the 5 signals.
And as you put something together, I need it to reflect my personality, but I need it to touch those 5 signals so that subconsciously when people are reading about this or watching a video or whatever it is, what they're picking up is good. It is checking the boxes on trust. So like, for instance, if I'm doing a video, But I'm not making eye contact with the camera.
If I'm having to look over here and read something and then come back and look over here and read something, people know you're reading a script. Now, there are ways to have something right in front of you and be able to read it on a camera, and so it doesn't appear that way.
Scott Carley [00:12:58 - 00:13:15]
And people catch on to motives. We call that commission breath. And in sales, commission breath, and they pick up pretty quickly.
You don't care about me. All you care about is selling this book. People just pick on that.
You have to know that. You have to know they're reading your intentions.
Scott Carley [00:13:15 - 00:13:45]
And then your core values. Some people are really reticent to identify some core values, but when you can identify some core values that are genuine and true to you without being mean about it or really trying to throw somebody off, then those core values, that subconscious and conscious of a person will grab those. And unconsciously they're saying, well, that's my man, that's my woman, man.
I hear what they're saying. I like what I hear.
Susan Friedmann [00:13:46 - 00:13:47]
Yeah.
Scott Carley [00:13:47 - 00:14:02]
If you're going to be, you know, in the middle of the street and I'm not going to say one thing one way or the other, you're not going to get anybody. So it doesn't mean you have to go way over to either side. But identify some of your core values.
Susan Friedmann [00:14:03 - 00:14:03]
Yeah.
Scott Carley [00:14:03 - 00:14:05]
Case studies. Case studies are—
Susan Friedmann [00:14:05 - 00:14:35]
I love that. The case studies, the research. Ask 5 people, then you quote 5 people.
That's research. I love that. Yes.
I mean, you and I both know that we're looking to also build thought leadership, which is really important these days because We don't want to know how to do something. AI can tell us, go to ChatGPT, go to Claude, go to any of the platforms, they'll tell you how to do something.
Susan Friedmann [00:14:35 - 00:14:50]
But it's more the practical side, the implementation, and really appealing to people. And as you say, showing I'm really vested in your success. Let me help you be successful.
Scott Carley [00:14:50 - 00:15:33]
Yeah. When I came up with the trust credit score, it comes from a personal story where I'd had a major trust crash personally and professionally, and I had to find a way to rebuild trust. I just searched and looked and tried to figure out where did trust come from.
And after a lot of research, more than 5 people, I discovered some things. And part of what I discovered was, number one, it's behavior. And people are always watching your behavior, consciously or unconsciously.
They're noticing things over time. I had to make sure that my behavior reflected some good things inside of me.
Scott Carley [00:15:33 - 00:16:12]
Now, here's something that's important about that. Absence and just running away and burying yourself doesn't create any behavior that people can see. People need to see you in action.
Rising like a phoenix or whatever it is. They need to see that you're making movement in one direction or another. So just be there.
But those signals, those 5 signals helped me to rebuild my trust personally and professionally. And now I'm enjoying more trust than I have ever enjoyed before, and it's deeper and stronger.
Scott Carley [00:16:13 - 00:17:03]
There you go. The 5 signals— part of my anthem about this is that trust is uncalibrated for most of us. We have a gut feeling, we have something that feels good or something that feels shady, but it's uncalibrated.
The 5 signals— the more you're conscious about those 5 signals just all the time, what it does is it calibrates that gut feeling. So now, because you've practiced it, when you see something and you say, I'm not sure about that, it's more valid because you've calibrated it. That's what I'm going for.
I'm trying to get the language of trust and the 5 signals out there. And as an author, if you're writing a book and you want people to believe in what you're doing, then have something similar to that.
Scott Carley [00:17:04 - 00:17:18]
You've got something. You want the world to see. So give it some milestones, give it some pegs that people can hang on to and say, ooh, man, I'm taking that away.
I like that. That's good. That's all we're trying to accomplish.
Susan Friedmann [00:17:19 - 00:17:55]
I think that people can see, you know, as you said, I mean, maybe subconsciously, but they can see if you're being real, if you're being authentic. And that's what we want more and more. is that, that authenticity. I want to— yes, you're a real person, you make mistakes, you might succeed, but then you also have the opposite side of where you're learning.
I'm in learning mode all the time. Also, and I was thinking of this, is many times my podcasts are audio only.
Scott Carley [00:17:56 - 00:17:56]
Yeah.
Susan Friedmann [00:17:56 - 00:18:14]
So If you don't have the visual, you have the audio part. It's like, how do you sound? Do you sound credible?
What's your tone? How are you coming over? How confident do you feel when you're talking as well?
Scott Carley [00:18:14 - 00:19:03]
Yeah, that is exactly right. I'll tell you, there was a person that I met and they're a business professional and turns out we did a little business together. And quite frankly, they didn't have a very high trust credit score with me.
And there were some things about their appearance and some things about their work that just didn't score very high. But the longer I was around them and the more I listened to them, they had a vocabulary that was what I consider pretty high. Most people speak in about an 8th, 9th grade level.
And And this person was speaking in a good college-level vocabulary. And some of the words that they were using, some of the phrases, the way they made their sentences made me realize this guy knows something.
Scott Carley [00:19:04 - 00:19:43]
And then when he talked about how much that he loves to take a hairball situation and turn it into something that really works, well, his credibility really went up because he'd done that several times. And I went, wow, I had to see some behavior, not just one time. And all that came from what they said.
Now, if you listen to me, you're going to tell I'm from Texas. I use a lot of metaphors. I always talk about we're fixing to do something and you're going, fixing to do something.
Where did that come from? People put up with some of my vernacular. Some people like it.
Scott Carley [00:19:44 - 00:19:51]
And other people just shake their heads. It's just who we are. How we speak is important.
Susan Friedmann [00:19:51 - 00:20:23]
Yes, very much so. I know that I'm a little bit at an advantage here sometimes. The fact that the British accent, people really love it, especially over here.
In England, they couldn't care less. You know, they all speak. They've all got different accents too.
The fact is that you're right. I remember coming over here for the first time, and then when listening to people from the South, for instance, I'm forming perceptions that were totally false, totally false.
Susan Friedmann [00:20:24 - 00:20:44]
And I've had to learn over time that, yeah, it doesn't matter their accent, whether they're from Texas, from Mississippi, from wherever. Yeah, you gotta learn to trust, but you gotta learn to understand them and where they're coming from because Where they're coming from could be very different from where you're coming from.
Scott Carley [00:20:44 - 00:21:43]
Exactly. So there's a couple of things that I want to mention before we move on to the next thing. One of the things that I made a very conscious choice to do was in writing my book and in writing a lot of things that I'm writing right now, I'll write it and I'll put it in my vernacular and the way I talk and My AI companions have gotten to know me pretty well, like 3 years worth of history with me.
So they understand how I think, how I talk, what I do. But I'll tell them, I want you to put this in millennial professional voice. And so it still sounds like me to some degree, but it puts it in a voice that maybe the millennial or Gen X or whoever can recognize a little easier because I'm a baby boomer.
And quite frankly, the millennials, they're just about ready to see us leave. They want the house.
Scott Carley [00:21:44 - 00:22:09]
They want to take control. And we want them to have control. And I want them to take over because that's what they're supposed to do.
And if all they hear are baby boomer voices, then they don't pay attention. They'll cut you off in a split second if they're not tuned to that. It's no secret.
I tell people I have done that because I want them to say, okay, he's current. He's saying some things.
Scott Carley [00:22:09 - 00:22:40]
He's trying to identify with us. You know, we don't use the word millennial, but he's trying to identify with us and speak our lingo. That's a real thing.
It's something that I would say to every author. I would invite you to consider thinking about things like that. Do whatever you want to, but I would invite you to consider your audience.
What is their language? Because if it was Spanish, you would be writing in Spanish. If it was French, you'd be writing in French.
Scott Carley [00:22:41 - 00:22:47]
Millennials speak a different language in some respects. So interpret it, put it in their language.
Susan Friedmann [00:22:47 - 00:23:04]
Yeah, I love that. That's a great segue, Scott, for you to tell our listeners how they can find out more about you. Your book, how you work with your clients when it comes to learning about Can I Trust You?
Scott Carley [00:23:05 - 00:23:51]
Yeah, well, thank you. So if you want to take a look at my book, you can go to Barnes Noble, Amazon, but look up Scott Carley. Because if you look up Can I Trust You? you're going to go through about 3 or 4 romance books before you get to my actual book, Can I Trust You?
But if you look up Scott Carley on Amazon, it'll come right up. You can get a hold of me if you go to trustenergizer.com. That's my website, and you'll find out more about the Trust Energizer.
At the bottom of that page, you will see the Trust Energizer app that you can use, and there's a place for you to contact me, scottcarley.com. I'd love to visit with you and answer any questions that you've got about What we're doing at Trust Energizer.
Susan Friedmann [00:23:52 - 00:24:09]
I love it. Always thinks of, you know, the Energizer Bunny, but you're, you're the change energizer. I love it.
Scott, as you know, I always have our guests leave our listeners with a golden nugget, words of wisdom. What are yours?
Scott Carley [00:24:10 - 00:24:49]
Trust is the foundation of every decision, partnership, and opportunity. And for you to just be conscious of those 5 signals of trust and learn to send out the right signals, because we're looking, we're scanning consciously and unconsciously. People are trying to find out, can I trust you?
And so feed them, feed them things that will make them feel that I trust him, I trust her. I believe in what they're doing. And just look at those 5 signals and send them out.
Susan Friedmann [00:24:49 - 00:24:56]
Oh, I'd love for you to just leave us with those 5 signals. Can you go through them once more?
Scott Carley [00:24:56 - 00:24:57]
Yeah, I sure can.
Susan Friedmann [00:24:57 - 00:24:57]
So we can get them.
Scott Carley [00:24:58 - 00:25:36]
Yeah. The first one is your presence, your energy, what you bring into the room. Are you bringing it down?
Are you taking it up? The second one is your motives and intentions. What are your intentions here?
What's going on? The third one is your core values and integrity. What do you do under pressure?
Do you break or do you hang tight with what you promised to do? And then the next one is your expertise. What are you certified in?
What are you a subject matter expert in? And the last one is your track record, your receipts. Show me case studies.
Show me something that says you've been doing this for a while.
Scott Carley [00:25:37 - 00:25:51]
Not bouncing around to a dozen different things. And you've won some awards. Show me some awards that you've won.
Those are the 5 signals that the brain and the heart are looking for and saying, can I trust you?
Susan Friedmann [00:25:51 - 00:26:04]
Oh, that brain-heart combo. I love it. Beautiful.
Thank you, Scott. It's been a pleasure having you here. I knew this would be fun, and it was.
So thank you. for sharing your wisdom.
Susan Friedmann [00:26:04 - 00:26:48]
And listeners, if your book isn't selling the way you wanted or expected to, you know the drill. Let's you and I jump on a quick call together to brainstorm ways to ramp up those sales because you've invested a whole lot of time, money, and energy, and it's time you got the return you were hoping for. So go to bookmarketingbrainstorm.com to schedule your free call.
And in the meantime, I hope this powerful interview sparks some ideas you can use to sell more books. Until next week, here's wishing you much book and author marketing success.
Here's how to connect with Scott;
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